Owners have filed 38 complaints
about the 2004 Pontiac Bonneville with NHTSA between 2004 and 2015.
The largest single group is the electrical system.
Across this model's run it ranks 13 of 13 worst.
The letter says how bad. This says what kind — whether this year drew
an unusual number of complaints, unusually dangerous
ones, or failures that arrived unusually early.
The dashed ring is 50 — the national norm. Further out is worse.
Complaint volume — 11
Against the median year of the Pontiac Bonneville. 50 means typical for this
model; 100 means roughly double.
Severity — 54
10.5% of these complaints
involved a crash, fire, injury or death, against a national rate of
9.7%.
Early failure — 50
29% of failures with a mileage on record happened under
36,000 miles, against a national rate of
29%.
How 2004 compares with every other Pontiac Bonneville
Odometer readings owners gave when they filed. About half of all
complaints include one.
1,000 – 9,999 miles
25.9%
10,000 – 24,999 miles
617.6%
25,000 – 49,999 miles
1441.2%
50,000 – 74,999 miles
514.7%
75,000 – 99,999 miles
25.9%
100,000 – 149,999 miles
411.8%
150,000+ miles
12.9%
When owners complained
A spike years after the car went on sale usually means a part wearing
out on schedule across the whole fleet — the kind of pattern no single
owner can see from inside their own car.
Dec 2004peak 7Jul 2015
Complaints that involved harm
Reports where the owner recorded a crash, a fire, an injury or a death.
at 135,000 milesRockford, ILFire
UNKNOWN OR OTHER
DRIVING ON HIGHWAY, WE (WIDE AND I) NOTICED A SMELL OF SOMETHING BURNING. SINCE WE WERE IN A FARMING AREA WE DIDN'T THINK TOO MUCH OF IT. ABOUT 20 MILES LATER THE SMELL LINGERED AND WE NOTICED SMOKE BEGAN FILLING CAR. PULLED OVER TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND MY WIFE NOTICED SMOKE COMING OUT FROM BACK SEAT. I TOOK THE SEAT OFF AND DISCOVERED THERE WAS A FIRE GOING ON IN THERE. PULLED BACK SEAT OUT ONTO GROUND AND PUT THAT FIRE OUT. UPON INSPECTION WE FOUND THE FUSE BOX TO BE BURNED AND MELTED. OBVIOUSLY THE CARE DOESN'T RUN ANY LONGER.
NHTSA complaint #10653652 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 135,000 milesRockford, ILFire
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
DRIVING ON HIGHWAY, WE (WIDE AND I) NOTICED A SMELL OF SOMETHING BURNING. SINCE WE WERE IN A FARMING AREA WE DIDN'T THINK TOO MUCH OF IT. ABOUT 20 MILES LATER THE SMELL LINGERED AND WE NOTICED SMOKE BEGAN FILLING CAR. PULLED OVER TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND MY WIFE NOTICED SMOKE COMING OUT FROM BACK SEAT. I TOOK THE SEAT OFF AND DISCOVERED THERE WAS A FIRE GOING ON IN THERE. PULLED BACK SEAT OUT ONTO GROUND AND PUT THAT FIRE OUT. UPON INSPECTION WE FOUND THE FUSE BOX TO BE BURNED AND MELTED. OBVIOUSLY THE CARE DOESN'T RUN ANY LONGER.
NHTSA complaint #10653652 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 24,000 milesSAN Jose, PR1 injured
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:12V/24V/48V BATTERY
DT*: THE CONTACT STATED WHILE ATTEMPTING TO START THE VEHICLE IN A PARKING LOT, WHEN THE KEY WAS TURNED TO THE ON POSITION, AN EXPLOSION OCCURRED IN THE REAR OF THE VEHICLE. IT WAS TOWED TO THE DEALER WHO DETERMINED THE BATTERY, LOCATED BEHIND THE BACK SEAT, EXPLODED CAUSING DAMAGE TO THE BACK HALF OF THE VEHICLE. THE CONTACT SUSTAINED MINOR INJURIES AND A POLICE REPORT WAS TAKEN.
NHTSA complaint #10174761 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
Brooklyn, NY1 injured
STRUCTURE:BODY:HOOD
2004 BONNEVILLE TRUNK HOOD FELL DOWN ON CONSUMERS WIFE. *TS
NHTSA complaint #10155177 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
The most recent complaints
In the owners' own words, exactly as filed with NHTSA.
at 150,000 milesWest Blocton, AL
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
TROUBLE WITH WINDOW REGULATORS GOING BAD. RIGHT NOW MY RIGHT REAR WINDOW AND DOOR LOCK WILL NOT WORK. THERE SHOULD BE A RECALL ON THESE WINDOWS..
NHTSA complaint #10733293 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 56,000 milesHastings, OK
AIR BAGS
TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2004 PONTIAC BONNEVILLE. THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE AIR BAG WARNING INDICATOR ILLUMINATED. THE FAILURE OCCURRED NUMEROUS OF TIMES. THE VEHICLE WAS NOT DIAGNOSED OR REPAIRED. THE MANUFACTURER WAS NOT NOTIFIED OF THE FAILURE. THE APPROXIMATE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 56,000.
NHTSA complaint #10660075 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 135,000 milesRockford, ILFire
UNKNOWN OR OTHER
DRIVING ON HIGHWAY, WE (WIDE AND I) NOTICED A SMELL OF SOMETHING BURNING. SINCE WE WERE IN A FARMING AREA WE DIDN'T THINK TOO MUCH OF IT. ABOUT 20 MILES LATER THE SMELL LINGERED AND WE NOTICED SMOKE BEGAN FILLING CAR. PULLED OVER TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND MY WIFE NOTICED SMOKE COMING OUT FROM BACK SEAT. I TOOK THE SEAT OFF AND DISCOVERED THERE WAS A FIRE GOING ON IN THERE. PULLED BACK SEAT OUT ONTO GROUND AND PUT THAT FIRE OUT. UPON INSPECTION WE FOUND THE FUSE BOX TO BE BURNED AND MELTED. OBVIOUSLY THE CARE DOESN'T RUN ANY LONGER.
NHTSA complaint #10653652 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 135,000 milesRockford, ILFire
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
DRIVING ON HIGHWAY, WE (WIDE AND I) NOTICED A SMELL OF SOMETHING BURNING. SINCE WE WERE IN A FARMING AREA WE DIDN'T THINK TOO MUCH OF IT. ABOUT 20 MILES LATER THE SMELL LINGERED AND WE NOTICED SMOKE BEGAN FILLING CAR. PULLED OVER TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND MY WIFE NOTICED SMOKE COMING OUT FROM BACK SEAT. I TOOK THE SEAT OFF AND DISCOVERED THERE WAS A FIRE GOING ON IN THERE. PULLED BACK SEAT OUT ONTO GROUND AND PUT THAT FIRE OUT. UPON INSPECTION WE FOUND THE FUSE BOX TO BE BURNED AND MELTED. OBVIOUSLY THE CARE DOESN'T RUN ANY LONGER.
NHTSA complaint #10653652 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 35,900 milesCedar Rapids, IA
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
WHEN THE CAR WOULD GO OVER A BUMP THE IGNITION SWITCH WOULD SLIDE TO THE OFF POSITION AND ALL SYSTEMS FAIL INCLUDING THE POWER BRAKES AND STEERING. WE HAVE USED 1 SINGLE KEY WITHOUT A KEY RING SINCE THE INCIDENTS BUT STILL FEEL UNSAFE.
NHTSA complaint #10594735 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 42,000 milesColumbus, OH
STEERING
TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2004 PONTIAC BONNEVILLE. THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE STEERING WHEEL WOULD INTERMITTENTLY EXHIBIT A CLUNKING SOUND. ADDITIONALLY, THE STEERING WHEEL WOULD SEIZE FOR A FEW MOMENTS BEFORE INDEPENDENTLY RESUMING NORMAL FUNCTION. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE DEALER BUT THE FAILURE WAS UNABLE TO BE DUPLICATED. THE MANUFACTURE WAS NOT MADE AWARE OF THE FAILURE. THE VEHICLE WAS NOT REPAIRED. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 42,000. THE CURRENT MILEAGE WAS 72,550.
NHTSA complaint #10575424 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 100,500 milesCroydon, PA
SERVICE BRAKES
STEEL BRAKE LINE STARTED LEAKING.
NHTSA complaint #10554581 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 72,000 milesSicklerville, NJ
POWER TRAIN
IN JAN 2009 @ 72K MILES ON THE CAR SERVICE ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON AND SHORTLY AFTER THE TRANS. WOULD BANG INTO GEAR. PER GM DEALER IT HAD CODES P0756 AND P2763 CALLING FOR REPLACEMENT OF SHIFT SOLENOID. IN SEPT. 2010 @ 108K MILES THE EXACT SAME ISSUE AND CODE, REPLACED THE SAME PART. NOW IN FEB 2012 @137K MILES AGAIN THE SAME EXACT ISSUE AND CODES, BUT THIS TIME THEY ARE SAYING TO REPLACE THE TRANS. THE FIRST 2 TIMES I WENT TO THE SAME DEALER, THIS TIME I WENT TO ANOTHER. ISSUE I HAVE IS IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN REPLACED AT 72K WHILE UNDER AN EXTENDED 5 YEAR, 100K MILE WARRANTY. GM IS UNWILLING TO ADMIT ANY FAULT OR DEFECT. I FEEL THAT THIS PART FAILING 3X WITHIN 65K MILES IS AN ISSUE AND SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED. ALSO LOOKING THRU SOME OF THE HISTORY I SEE THIS SAME TYPE OF ISSUE IN THE 2003 CARS.
NHTSA complaint #10448284 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 40,662 milesStrongsville, OH
STEERING
STEERING WHEEL CLUNKED & FELT DETACHED---CAR TAKEN TO GM DEALERSHIP WHERE IT WAS FOUND TO HAVE QUOTE A "BROKEN STEERING COLUMN." STEERING COLUMN PART WAS REPLACED, PART #26087952 COLUMN AS 6,518. COST WAS $1516.58. CAR WAS DELIVERED ON 3/15/05 AND HAS ONLY 40,662 + MILES.
NHTSA complaint #10448228 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 97,000 milesChardon, OH
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2004 PONTIAC BONNEVILLE. THE CONTACT STATED THAT ALL OF THE WARNING AND INDICATOR GAUGES FAILED TO WORK PROPERLY AND WOULD ALL PROVIDE A READING OF ZERO. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE DEALER WHERE THE VEHICLE WAS DIAGNOSED AS A CLUSTER GAUGE FAILURE. THE MANUFACTURER WAS CONTACTED BUT THE VEHICLE WAS NOT REPAIRED. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 97,000 AND THE CURRENT MILEAGE WAS 100,000.
NHTSA complaint #10419170 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 82,000 milesHoward City, MI
AIR BAGS
TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2004 PONTIAC BONEVILLE. THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE AIR BAG DEFAULT WARNING LIGHT WOULD ILLUMINATE ON THE INSTRUMENT PANEL. THE VEHICLE WAS NOT INSPECTED BY A DEALER NOR REPAIRED AND THE MANUFACTURER WAS NOT CONTACTED . THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 82,000.
NHTSA complaint #10402552 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 40,000 milesLakeville, MN
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
THE FIRST SIGN OF TROUBLE WAS WITH THE TEMPERATURE GAUGE, THEN THE TACHOMETER. MOST RECENTLY THE VOLTMETER AND SPEEDOMETER HAVE STARTED TO FAIL.
NHTSA complaint #10331486 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 24,000 milesMolino, FL
STEERING
HAVE A 2004 BONNEVILLE GXP AROUND THE 24,000 MILE MARK THE CAR SEEMED TO FALL APART. THE PASSENGER WINDOW STICKS, THE TRUNK STAYS FULL OF WATER, THE PASSENGER SIDE FLOOR PAN FILLS UP WITH WATER ONCE EVERY 4 MONTHS, THE COOLANT TEMPERATURE GAUGE STOPPED WORKING, THE TACHOMETER STOPPED WORKING, THE SPEEDOMETER STOPPED WORKING, AND MOST CONCERNING THE STEERING JOINT IN THE STEERING COLUMN IS BAD. WE CONTACTED THE LOCAL DEALER AT THE TIME AND THEY SAID THERE WERE NO RECALLS. I DO NOT FEEL SAFE DRIVING MY THREE CHILDREN AROUND IN THIS CAR. A FORTY THOUSAND DOLLAR CAR SHOULD NOT HAVE THESE MANY PROBLEMS WITH SO LITTLE MILEAGE. I JUST FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THEY HAVE NOT RECALLED THIS VEHICLE. I AM DISGUSTED WITH GENERAL MOTORS.
NHTSA complaint #10311692 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 24,000 milesMolino, FL
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
HAVE A 2004 BONNEVILLE GXP AROUND THE 24,000 MILE MARK THE CAR SEEMED TO FALL APART. THE PASSENGER WINDOW STICKS, THE TRUNK STAYS FULL OF WATER, THE PASSENGER SIDE FLOOR PAN FILLS UP WITH WATER ONCE EVERY 4 MONTHS, THE COOLANT TEMPERATURE GAUGE STOPPED WORKING, THE TACHOMETER STOPPED WORKING, THE SPEEDOMETER STOPPED WORKING, AND MOST CONCERNING THE STEERING JOINT IN THE STEERING COLUMN IS BAD. WE CONTACTED THE LOCAL DEALER AT THE TIME AND THEY SAID THERE WERE NO RECALLS. I DO NOT FEEL SAFE DRIVING MY THREE CHILDREN AROUND IN THIS CAR. A FORTY THOUSAND DOLLAR CAR SHOULD NOT HAVE THESE MANY PROBLEMS WITH SO LITTLE MILEAGE. I JUST FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THEY HAVE NOT RECALLED THIS VEHICLE. I AM DISGUSTED WITH GENERAL MOTORS.
NHTSA complaint #10311692 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 24,000 milesMolino, FL
LATCHES/LOCKS/LINKAGES
HAVE A 2004 BONNEVILLE GXP AROUND THE 24,000 MILE MARK THE CAR SEEMED TO FALL APART. THE PASSENGER WINDOW STICKS, THE TRUNK STAYS FULL OF WATER, THE PASSENGER SIDE FLOOR PAN FILLS UP WITH WATER ONCE EVERY 4 MONTHS, THE COOLANT TEMPERATURE GAUGE STOPPED WORKING, THE TACHOMETER STOPPED WORKING, THE SPEEDOMETER STOPPED WORKING, AND MOST CONCERNING THE STEERING JOINT IN THE STEERING COLUMN IS BAD. WE CONTACTED THE LOCAL DEALER AT THE TIME AND THEY SAID THERE WERE NO RECALLS. I DO NOT FEEL SAFE DRIVING MY THREE CHILDREN AROUND IN THIS CAR. A FORTY THOUSAND DOLLAR CAR SHOULD NOT HAVE THESE MANY PROBLEMS WITH SO LITTLE MILEAGE. I JUST FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THEY HAVE NOT RECALLED THIS VEHICLE. I AM DISGUSTED WITH GENERAL MOTORS.
NHTSA complaint #10311692 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 24,000 milesMolino, FL
EQUIPMENT
HAVE A 2004 BONNEVILLE GXP AROUND THE 24,000 MILE MARK THE CAR SEEMED TO FALL APART. THE PASSENGER WINDOW STICKS, THE TRUNK STAYS FULL OF WATER, THE PASSENGER SIDE FLOOR PAN FILLS UP WITH WATER ONCE EVERY 4 MONTHS, THE COOLANT TEMPERATURE GAUGE STOPPED WORKING, THE TACHOMETER STOPPED WORKING, THE SPEEDOMETER STOPPED WORKING, AND MOST CONCERNING THE STEERING JOINT IN THE STEERING COLUMN IS BAD. WE CONTACTED THE LOCAL DEALER AT THE TIME AND THEY SAID THERE WERE NO RECALLS. I DO NOT FEEL SAFE DRIVING MY THREE CHILDREN AROUND IN THIS CAR. A FORTY THOUSAND DOLLAR CAR SHOULD NOT HAVE THESE MANY PROBLEMS WITH SO LITTLE MILEAGE. I JUST FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THEY HAVE NOT RECALLED THIS VEHICLE. I AM DISGUSTED WITH GENERAL MOTORS.
NHTSA complaint #10311692 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 132,000 milesAgawam, MA
STEERING
A MASSACHUSETTES VEHICLE INSPECTION ON MY 2004 PONTIAC BONNEVILLE HAS RESULTED IN A SAFETY REJECTION OF THE VEHICLE FOR A WORN STEERING STUB SHAFT BEARING. PONTIAC IS AWARE OF THIS PROBLEM AND HAS ISSUED SERVICE BULLETIN 04-02-32-001D MAR 09 (STEERING - STEERING GEAR STUB SHAFT BEARING KIT). THE FACT THAT A SERVICE BULLETIN HAS BEEN ISSUED SUBSTANTIATES THAT THIS IS A COMMON SAFETY CONCERN. THE CONSEQUENCE OF FAILURE IS LOSS OF STEERING CONTROL.
NHTSA complaint #10279889 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 53,932 milesElkton, MD
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM: INSTRUMENT CLUSTER/PANEL
2004 PONTIAC BONNEVILLE SPEEDOMETER, FUEL GAUGE AND TEMP GAUGE HAVE ALL MALFUNCTIONED. WEB RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT THIS HAS BECOME A COMMON PROBLEM IN GM VEHICLES, BUT GM DOES NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE PROBLEM.
NHTSA complaint #10249725 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 73,000 milesFulton, IL
POWER TRAIN:MANUAL TRANSMISSION
CAR STARTED SHIFTING HARD FROM 2ND TO 3RD GEAR-- TOOK IT IN TO A PONTIAC DEALER AND THEY STATED IT WAS THE PRESSURE REGULATOR SOLENOID WHICH IS THE SAME ISSUE THEY WERE HAVING WITH THE 2003 MODELS THAT HAD NUMEROUS SERVICE BULLETINS ON. I CALLED GM AND THEY AGREED TO COVER THE CHARGES TO FIX IT; HOWEVER, WHEN I HAD IT FIXED AND $1,100 LATER-- THEY SAID THEY WEREN'T GOING TO COVER IT BECAUSE IT WASN'T A 2003 MODEL.
NHTSA complaint #10245344 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 64,000 milesRocky River, OH
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
I HAVE A 2004 PONTIAC BONNEVILE SE WITH 64,000 MILES ON IT. THE TRANSMISSION PRESSURE CONTROL SOLENOID, WHICH ENDS UP CAUSING HARD SHIFTS AND CAN CAUSE TRANSMISSION DAMAGE, HAS FAILED, AND THE TRANSMISSION EITHER NEEDS TO BE REBUILT OR REPLACED ALTOGETHER. IT IS A RATHER PRICEY FIX BETWEEN $800(REBUILT) TO $2000(REPLACED).
NHTSA complaint #10244142 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 38,000 milesYonkers, NY
STEERING:LINKAGES:TIE ROD ASSEMBLY
TL*THE CONTACT OWNS A 2004 PONTIAC BONNEVILLE. AFTER STOPPING AT A TRAFFIC LIGHT, THE TIE ROD FAILED AND THE TWO FRONT WHEELS WERE FACING EACH OTHER. THE VEHICLE WAS TOWED TO A DEALER AND THEY STATED THAT THE TIE ROD WAS A FOREIGN PART. UPDATED 10-29-08 *BF UPDATED 10/30/08.
NHTSA complaint #10243980 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
Brockway, PA
WHEELS
I PURCHASED A 2004 PONTIAC BONNEVILE USED. I WAS THE 2ND OWNER OF THE CAR AND THE PREVIOUS OWNER KEPT THE CAR IN TOP NOTCH SHAPE! I PURCHASED THE CAR IN MAY 2007. AUGUST OF 2008 I STARTED NOTICING MY CHROME PLATED WHEELS PEELING, MEANING THE FINISH ON THE WHEELS ARE COMING OFF IN CHUNKS. THE WHEELS IN WHICH THE CHROME PLATE IS PEELING OFF ARE BECOMING RUSTY NOW. NOT ONLY ARE MY WHEELS RUSTY, THE PIECES PEELING OFF ARE ACCUMULATING NEAR MY BRAKES AND BECOMING LODGED.
NHTSA complaint #10240818 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 32,300 milesClinton, MS
STEERING
POPPING IN STEERING - THE STEERING GETS HARD TO TURN AND THERE IS A POPPING NOISE WHEN TURNING. I WAS TOLD BY THE FIRST DEALERSHIP THAT IT WAS A FAULTY PART BUT WOULD NOT BE COVERED UNDER ANY RECALLS. WAS REPLACED UNDER WARRANTY AFTER DAYS OF ARGUMENTS. WAS TOLD IT IS NOW A MAINTENANCE PROBLEM THAT WILL COST ABOUT $175.00 EACH TIME IT IS REPAIRED WITH A GREASING KIT - NO REPLACED AS DEFECTIVE - ABOUT TWICE A YEAR SO FAR. I FEEL IT SHOULD STATE IT IN THE OWNERS MANUAL AS A MAINTENANCE ISSUE IG THAT IS WHAT IT IS.
NHTSA complaint #10227794 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 40,000 milesKansas City, MO
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM: INSTRUMENT CLUSTER/PANEL
INSTRUMENT CLUSTER / GAUGES ARE FAILING. FIRST THE TEMP GAUGE QUIT, THEN THE VOLT GAUGE, AND NOW THE TACHOMETER. CAR IS OUT OF WARRANTY. DEALER WILL NOT REPLACE.
NHTSA complaint #10212952 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.
at 40,023 milesRound Rock, TX
SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:PEDALS AND LINKAGES
TL*THE CONTACT OWNS A 2004 PONTIAC BONNEVILLE. WHILE BACKING OUT OF THE DRIVEWAY AT 5 MPH, THE BRAKE PEDAL EXTENDED TO THE FLOOR AND DANGLED WHEN IT WAS DEPRESSED. THERE WAS NO RESISTANCE IN THE BRAKES. THE VEHICLE CONTINUED MOVING, JUMPED A CURB, AND LANDED IN HER NEIGHBOR'S YARD. THE VEHICLE WAS TOWED TO A PRIVATE MECHANIC. THE CAUSE OF THE FAILURE WAS A FAILED PEDAL ASSEMBLY RETAINER CLIP, WHICH WAS REPLACED. THE CURRENT MILEAGE WAS 40,078 AND FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 40,023. UPDATED 11/29/07.
NHTSA complaint #10209006 — an unverified report by a vehicle owner.